About this episode
Some conversations are worth revisiting. In this roundtable episode of the YES! Women's Network Podcast, Michele Morley sits down with Jodie Lemon and Valinda Hanks to look back at recent interviews with Curtis Morley, Brandi Vega, and Heather Osmond, and at the October event where Curtis and Heather both spoke.
What comes out of it is not a recap so much as three women working through what they actually took home: how to tell pain from misery, how to ask a better question, and how passion often shows up through necessity rather than a lightning bolt.
Curtis Morley on Counterfeit Emotions and Why Pain Is Not Misery
Curtis Morley describes himself as an emotionologist and wrote a book called "Counterfeit Emotions." His premise is that many of the emotions we think we understand have a near twin that quietly impersonates them. Love and lust. Kind and nice. Pain and misery.
Michele admits the kind and nice pairing caught her off guard. Those two words had always felt interchangeable to her until Curtis walked the room through the distinction at the October event. Jodie put it simply: kindness is something you extend outward, while nice can be more about how you want to be seen.
The harder pairing was pain and misery. Curtis spoke openly about his divorce and the misery that came with it, and about the choice to stop running from the pain underneath. The roundtable landed on the difference this way: pain can be acknowledged, sat with, and moved through toward sorrow and then toward healing. Misery is where you get stuck.
"You do have to go through that misery, the pain, the sorrow to get to that next level where you can trust, or you can fully give yourself to someone else."
That conversation opened into something personal. Jodie, who has been divorced for years, described recognizing the difference between the excitement of something new and a steadier, almost spiritual sense of being loved. Michele, married to Jed for 34 years, named the other side of that coin.
"We are better than we were before. And our love is deeper. Our appreciation for each other is stronger."
The group's shared observation: too many people sweep the hurt under the rug and move quickly into the next relationship without healing first.
Brandi Vega, Promise to Live, and a Better Question
Brandi Vega has worked in media for 30 years and owns a media company. She also founded a nonprofit called Promise to Live, which grew out of one of the hardest moments of her life. Her own daughter attempted to take her life, and Brandi's plea in that moment became the spark for an organization built around helping people get through the next day and reaching out to others.
One small practice from her interview stuck with the whole table. Instead of the automatic "How are you?" that invites an automatic "I'm good," Brandi asks, "How are you really?" The second question gives the other person permission to answer honestly.
"It's okay to not be okay."
The roundtable agreed that most women find this hard. There is a pull to stay positive, to send people away feeling better, to be the nurturer rather than the one who needs something. Valinda described a friend who seems to call at exactly the right moment, and when asked how she knows, the friend says she simply listens to the spirit.
Two other ideas from Brandi came up. Pray for the other person, even when (especially when) you are in a disagreement with them. And assume people like you, rather than filling the silence with the story that they do not.
Heather Osmond on Resourcefulness and Work That Does Not Feel Like Work
Heather Osmond owns Osmond Design, recently bought Best of State, works in residential and commercial real estate, hosts a real estate podcast on KSL, and has launched her own clothing line. The roundtable found her interview striking because of where she started, not where she landed.
Early in her marriage, there was nothing. She painted. She made do. When a couch had a rip in it, she covered it with a blanket and a pillow. Asked what she would do with $1,000 to improve a home, she said paint and pillows, which is also how her design work began: walking into houses and seeing the few inexpensive changes that would help them sell.
She and Jared later built up to roughly 36 single family homes and moved into assisted living properties. After their divorce, she rebuilt on her own. Michele noted that Heather's faith stayed intact and she was not waiting for anyone to come rescue her.
Heather kept using the words obsessed and passionate. That raised a real question at the table: what about women who have not found that yet? Jodie's answer was practical. She never planned to go into real estate. Stay open, try things, notice what fits, and let it build. As Heather put it, if you like it, it stops feeling like work.
Naming Your Own Pillars
YES! Women's Network holds four pillars: faith, relationships, well-being, and finance. Heather named her own three: faith, family, and freedom. The roundtable liked that framing. Group pillars are useful, but personal ones ask you to look inside and identify what actually matters to you.
Michele and Jodie also questioned whether true balance exists. Most days one pillar pulls harder than the others, and that is not a failure. The goal is to touch each of them in some small way rather than keep perfect score.
After the October event, Michele said nearly every woman she spoke with told her some version of the same thing: I needed to hear this today, and I know what I need to do now.
Action Steps
- Replace "How are you?" with "How are you really?" with one person this week, and leave room for an honest answer.
- Name the emotion you are actually sitting in. Ask whether it is pain you can move through or misery you have settled into.
- Pray for, or intentionally think well of, someone you are currently at odds with.
- Write down your own three or four personal pillars, not borrowed ones, and check which one needs attention today.
- Pick one low cost, resourceful improvement (paint, a pillow, a rearranged room) and just start.
If one of these three conversations keeps surfacing in your mind, go back and listen to that full episode. Then take the smallest piece of it and use it today.
Read the full transcript
This automated transcript has been lightly formatted for readability and may contain errors.
Welcome to Yes Women’s Network podcast. We’re so happy to have you here with us today. [00:00:30] So today we are going to do a roundtable, um, conversation with [00:00:35] Jodi and Belinda joining me today, um, some dear friends. And [00:00:40] we’re going to talk about some recent podcasts that we’ve had, and we’re gonna kind [00:00:45] of open it up to a, a discussion, conversation, and [00:00:50] address kind of the, the issues and the, um, what, [00:00:55] what the conversation was- Mm-hmm in the podcast. And, and hopefully we [00:01:00] can even get some input from you, um, and what you gained from those podcasts and even the [00:01:05] roundtable.
So we’re gonna open it up t- with talking about Curtis [00:01:10] Morley. And Curtis Morley is, um It’s [00:01:15] considered an emotionologist, and he has written a book called Counterfeit [00:01:20] Emotions. And it was, it was fascinating to have that [00:01:25] conversation with him about the different emotions that- Mm-hmm … Every [00:01:30] person deals with, but not enough of us understand that they [00:01:35] have counterfeit emotions to them. For example, love and [00:01:40] lust, kind and nice, pain and misery.
[00:01:45] So it was fascinating to sit and have a conversation with him, and it even got [00:01:50] personal. I even felt emotion in, I mean, in [00:01:55] my heart. Like I can feel this. And I think that’s kind of the point is [00:02:00] to understand what our emotions are. So what, what did you find from that?
And [00:02:05] who knew that kind and nice weren’t similar? Yeah. I mean, I, I’ve always [00:02:10] thought… I’ve always used those just easily instead of actually [00:02:15] understanding, which he goes through in his book, and he, on the teleprompter, he put it up [00:02:20] at the event and, and went through each one, how their [00:02:25] counterfeit partner is, and I thought kind and nice, I always thought that was real [00:02:30] similar, but really there’s a real different definition- That’s true Jodie Lemon: of them. That’s true.
Yeah. [00:02:35] Yeah. For sure. With the kind, you know, you’re just being kind to people. [00:02:40] Nice, you know, you’ve got to come within yourself.
[00:02:45] Yeah. And you really don’t make that differentiation- Difference. Mm-hmm … Until you go, oh- Oh, wow … [00:02:50] that makes sense.
Sense. Yeah. So in the conversation, something that came up, and [00:02:55] he is, he’s been divorced and he is remarried, but he talked [00:03:00] about how difficult that the divorce was and that [00:03:05] he felt such… Michele Morley: He described it as misery. He was miserable.
[00:03:10] And he, as a result, it kind of feels [00:03:15] debilitating, right? It does. Totally. And so how, he talks about how he [00:03:20] confronted the misery and realizing, [00:03:25] okay, I can sit with this pain- Mm-hmm … And be able to sit [00:03:30] with it and go, okay, you’re here.
I can feel you, and we’re gonna sit [00:03:35] with it, and I’m gonna acknowledge it Do you see the difference between the [00:03:40] misery and the pain? I didn’t really until he mentioned it. Right. And he was saying how [00:03:45] the sorrow, you can, you can have the sorrow from that misery and pain, and go on [00:03:50] with the sorrow and build up from there. Mm-hmm.
And not stay in the misery and the pain. [00:03:55] Yeah. You know, 50% of the people have been divorced now. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jodie Lemon: They [00:04:00] have those statistics. And you think, boy, once you go through divorce… And you [00:04:05] don’t ever think you’re going to get there. No, naturally. You don’t ever think- Yeah …
It’s going to happen to you. Why would it [00:04:10] happen to you? Yeah, so 50% of the people in, you know, [00:04:15] now have been divorced, and you don’t ever think it’ll happen to you. Michele Morley: No. No.
You get married, you [00:04:20] have this lifelong of adventure ahead of you, and you think, “Oh, I’m gonna work through [00:04:25] this. Whatever it takes, I’m going to, I’m going to make it.” Mm-hmm. And you know, you come from, [00:04:30] like, I mean, back, my parents have never been divorced. My grandparents have never been [00:04:35] divorced.
Mm. Jodie Lemon: You know? And so you have this lifelong… I didn’t know divorce. [00:04:40] I didn’t know what it looked like- Right …
Until you go through it. And it’s a hard thing. It is a [00:04:45] hard thing for people to, to go through and to feel through and, and to [00:04:50] understand- Mm-hmm … You know, why you have those feelings. And it’s so natural to be [00:04:55] married when you’re young and, and then you get to a point and it, and it hasn’t worked for one [00:05:00] reason or the other, yet you’re willing to, you know, maybe try it again [00:05:05] someday.
And, like, he made it. I mean, he made it, and now he’s happy, married, and- Mm-hmm … And I [00:05:10] love that. That’s a good story. Yeah.
It is. It’s a neat story for people to, you know- Yeah … [00:05:15] be able to make it through divorce, understand why it hurts so bad, wonder- [00:05:20] understand, you know, the emotions through it, and help yourself. Get help with [00:05:25] counselors or whatever it takes to get that help. And then you’re clean [00:05:30] to get married, you know, to somebody else.
Mm-hmm. And it can be pretty. It can be a [00:05:35] beautiful thing. But you do have to go through those levels. Yeah.
You do have to go through that [00:05:40] misery, the pain, the sorrow to get to that next level- Mm Valinda Hankds: where [00:05:45] you can trust or you can fully give yourself to someone else. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is- [00:05:50] And- … A little hard sometimes.
Yeah. It’s a letting go. It’s a little difficult. It can be very hard. To get to a point where, do I [00:05:55] sweep this under the rug or do we face it?
Right. Do we face the pain? Do we [00:06:00] face the fear? Michele Morley: Or d- or do we, you know, overcome this [00:06:05] so that we’re better on the other end of it in the next relationship that we sh- [00:06:10] we encounter, right? Which I think a lot of people do sweep it under the rug.
Yes, that’s totally right. Mm-hmm. Don’t you? I think [00:06:15] they just move on quickly and don’t heal. Yes.
I think you do that through different [00:06:20] relationships Relationships Maybe you don’t heal. Valinda Hankds: Yeah. And you think sometimes you are healed. [00:06:25] Mm-hmm. And, you know, till you actually go through it and go, “Oh [00:06:30] no, I can do this again.”
So how do you- Yeah … Recognize, or how do you [00:06:35] differentiate love and lust? Because in the excitement of meeting somebody- [00:06:40] Oh my gosh … Oh, it’s fun. Yeah, it’s fun.
You know, all the excitement and the- The butterflies Michele Morley: the energy- Yeah … That [00:06:45] you have, the chemistry, all of the stuff. And but there is other [00:06:50] stuff involved in relationships, right? Where especially if you’re [00:06:55] remarrying or get or hoping to, but when you get into [00:07:00] another relationship, there’s all these other components. Oh, believe me, I know.
Yes. [00:07:05] Okay. I do. Yes. But you have to be able to recognize, okay, [00:07:10] is this love?
Is this something meaningful? Is this something [00:07:15] that has potential for growth? Or is the chemistry, the excitement, the [00:07:20] exhilaration of something new going to overtake the true [00:07:25] emotion of love You tell me. I’d like to tell you. [00:07:30] I am going through this right now.
Jodie Lemon: You feel fortunate. I know the [00:07:35] difference now. Yeah. Actually, yeah, so, so I’ve been divorced for years, [00:07:40] you know, and, um, and I’ve gone through the, you might call it [00:07:45] lust or the excitement or the butterfly stages or whatever, and it is different [00:07:50] when you meet somebody that you actually… It’s not a love.
It’s actually a [00:07:55] different type of feeling. Michele Morley: Mm-hmm. And you only recognize it, I think, it’s [00:08:00] almost a spiritual feeling- Mm-hmm … When somebody loves you. Yeah.
[00:08:05] And it’s not just for fun or you’re not, you know, you’re not just [00:08:10] going to enjoy, you know, the movies together, whatever. It’s actually a [00:08:15] deeper, um, more of a spiritual, heartfelt feeling. [00:08:20] It, it’s different. Yeah. It’s beautiful.
And I think- It is, yeah … When you get there, you feel [00:08:25] it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You can think about it, think about it, you know, and you hope for it, but when you [00:08:30] actually feel the difference in a good, good person- Yeah …
You know it. [00:08:35] It’s beautiful. It’s worth waiting for. I know. It’s [00:08:40] worth searching for.
And, and sometimes it takes longer. You know, [00:08:45] if I, I look at my own relationship and my marriage, and Jed and I have been married 34 [00:08:50] years. Oh, I love that. Been… Yeah.
It’s been, we’ve obviously had some [00:08:55] real struggles, some real difficulties. But I can [00:09:00] say that through those difficulties that we’ve been through, and to be on [00:09:05] the other side of it, I am s- it is the most beautiful [00:09:10] feeling to be able to look at my person and go, “We are better than we were [00:09:15] before. And our love is deeper.” Mm-hmm. “Our appreciation for [00:09:20] each other is stronger.”
And, um, it’s a real [00:09:25] gift. I know that it is a gift, and I think it’s easy to take it, take for [00:09:30] granted. Mm-hmm. Um, and I’m sure I’ve done that before. But [00:09:35] now, as I look at him and we can laugh about quirky things- Mm-hmm …
And we can laugh about [00:09:40] past mistakes, and we know we’re forgiven and worked through them, but that [00:09:45] to me is love. Jodie Lemon: Yes. That to me is, you know… And so I [00:09:50] love the beauty of that when you recognize what’s [00:09:55] what in a relationship and how you… And it even transcends to how you [00:10:00] treat people.
Do you think- Mm-hmm … So, when you talk about that spiritual level, I feel [00:10:05] like that transcends to how you see people and how [00:10:10] you treat them. Michele Morley: Like kind and nice. Mm-hmm. Are you more kind because you see [00:10:15] people in a more, I don’t know, loving- You know, [00:10:20] non-judgmental way Non-judgmental.
Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s neat to [00:10:25] watch you and Jed. Oh, yeah. I do. In the best relationship.
Yeah, I think it’s so neat to- I’ve [00:10:30] watched it for 18 years. It’s fun. Jodie Lemon: Yeah. Yeah. [00:10:35] I think we all grew.
‘Cause we all still have our trials with the kids and their ages. Yeah. And then now that you’re past that, [00:10:40] and now to see you and Jed come back together as a couple- Mm-hmm … It’s amazing. The [00:10:45] growth that they’ve had over the years.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Wow. Yeah, you have to both be in.
[00:10:50] Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. You both have to be in. Yep. Yeah.
‘Cause one might be stronger- If one of you wanna- … [00:10:55] one time, and the other one might be stronger the next time. Yeah. Right. That’s absolutely right.
Yeah. [00:11:00] And you have to have the faith in the, in seeing what’s [00:11:05] beyond the mess. Mm-hmm. Michele Morley: Right? Yep.
And I’m so grateful that now [00:11:10] we’ve both, both been able to see beyond that and move in beautiful [00:11:15] ways. So I’m super grateful for the insight from [00:11:20] Curtis. Mm. And I mean, I think there was a lot of value to what he [00:11:25] offered. So now let’s talk about Brandi.
Brandi Vega owns a [00:11:30] media company. Um, she has been in, in media for 30 [00:11:35] years, and she also is a, um, has a nonprofit, [00:11:40] uh, organization called Promise to Live. Jodie Lemon: Promise to Live. And it’s a beautiful, [00:11:45] um, uh, organization and what… She, she’s on fire.
She is on fire, [00:11:50] and her story is that her, her very own daughter, um, tried to [00:11:55] take her life. Yeah. And as Brandi saw her daughter in that situation and [00:12:00] pleaded with God to please save her, and it ignited a [00:12:05] fire within her to start something and to try and do her best to [00:12:10] help save lives and impact other people. Michele Morley: So the promise is that [00:12:15] you will. You promise to just get through the next- The next day.
Yeah … Day and that you’re going [00:12:20] to reach out to people. And so one of the things that she pointed out [00:12:25] was that when you talk to people, and it’s so easy to say, “How are [00:12:30] you?” Mm-hmm. And then somebody, “Oh, I’m good.”
Fake. But then she says- She says [00:12:35] really. Yep. She says- Yeah … “How are you really?”
Really. Mm-hmm. But all too often, we’re all [00:12:40] so busy, like I’m not gonna- We just brush it off. We don’t feel like, “Okay, I’m gonna tell you [00:12:45] all the things.” Mm-hmm.
So when she says, “How are you really?” [00:12:50] that gets to, you know- It opens it up so that you, the other person feels more like [00:12:55] they can really tell you how they’re feeling. Jodie Lemon: Yeah, very impactful I thought- Mm-hmm … When she said that. Mm-hmm.
[00:13:00] How are you really? Mm-hmm. That’s a, that’s a different feeling. Yeah. Erin, how are you?
[00:13:05] Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes you can really tell if somebody … Right? So are we in?
[00:13:10] Are we really gonna be here today? Do you have a minute? [00:13:15] Sometimes you have to look at your clock. Okay. Yeah.
But it is something that’s [00:13:20] meaningful, and it could make all the difference in somebody’s life, right? [00:13:25] Mm-hmm. Oh. Have e- have either of you had an experience where somebody has told you, “I [00:13:30] needed that call,” or, “I needed that message”? Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. And [00:13:35] people that also call you. Yes. I have one friend that I can just be sitting there and going, “Oh, [00:13:40] I’m all by myself. I’m having a little bit of a hard day,” and bam.
Yeah. You [00:13:45] get a phone call and you’re, “How do you know?” Yeah. How do you know? And I’ve asked her, “How do you feel that?”
Mm-hmm. [00:13:50] And she said, “I just listen to the spirit.” I love that. That’s what it is. Mm-hmm.
[00:13:55] Yeah. Yeah. It’s a neat… And Brandi said, “It’s okay to be, to not [00:14:00] be okay.” Michele Morley: Exactly.
Oh, yeah. And you have to think about that, and you think, “Man, is it, uh, really [00:14:05] okay to say, ‘Uh, no, I’m struggling.’” Mm-hmm. Yeah. “I’m not having the best day.”
We all [00:14:10] have a hard time with that, I think, to let- Yes … Anybody know w- you know, we really are. Well, [00:14:15] especially ‘cause you always think, “Oh, I’m, I wanna be positive. Jodie Lemon: I wanna affect people in a positive [00:14:20] way.” But I always say too, I want, I want the people to walk away from me [00:14:25] feeling better.
Yeah. And as women, let’s be honest, we’re nurturers. [00:14:30] Mm-hmm. Instinctively. Mm-hmm.
That’s what we, and we wanna help take care of, and we want… [00:14:35] But yes, we do want people to walk away, you know, feeling better, [00:14:40] but we also wanna help make things better. Yeah. Right. Uh-huh.
So [00:14:45] true. One of the other things that she said was, um, pray for the other [00:14:50] person. Mm-hmm. Man, I love that. So, if you’re having a dispute or a [00:14:55] disagreement with your spouse or anybody else, pray for that other person.
Mm-hmm. Which [00:15:00] I thought, “Okay, so I did have an experience with it this morning,” which I had [00:15:05] got up, I said my prayers, and it was, you know, about my day. Michele Morley: Mm-hmm. [00:15:10] And then when, after I read that or I listened to her this morning, I thought, [00:15:15] “Oh, boy, I’ve gotta go pray for my friend that I’m, [00:15:20] you know, he and I are dating or whatever,” and, and I had to [00:15:25] have a little prayer about him today. But it’s such a great way Oh, I did.
I had to [00:15:30] pray. I’m like, “This is gonna take all I can do today.” Jodie Lemon: You don’t like me. No, I’m just [00:15:35] teasing. But no, it’s, it’s very good, I think.
I didn’t think of it that way. I didn’t [00:15:40] really think to actually, you know, really make that a big point of- [00:15:45] Mm-hmm … Praying for them too because we’re all in this together. Mm-hmm. We’re trying to make it- Yeah …
In life [00:15:50] to go, let’s work together and, and have a happy life. Michele Morley: Yeah. Being [00:15:55] specific, I love that too. I mean, intentional- Yeah. Mm-hmm …
About how you start your day and [00:16:00] with prayer or even as you think of other people to be intentional about- [00:16:05] Yeah … Having them be a part of that prayer. But also, okay, now [00:16:10] what am I feeling? Who can I reach out to who might need me- Yeah you know, in this [00:16:15] moment? I, I remember as a young girl, especially junior high, high school, that was [00:16:20] my goal was, okay, who can I impact or who needs me [00:16:25] today?
Mm-hmm. And let me feel that. Let me g- be guided by that. And that’s [00:16:30] something I’ve tried to implement throughout my life, but it goes back to, [00:16:35] okay, who are we praying for? It’s not all about us.
No. There’s other people that, [00:16:40] well, like you say, we’re all in this together. Yeah. Yeah, and she [00:16:45] said, um, she said, “Not everybody is going to love each one of [00:16:50] us.” Mm-hmm.
Right. And I thought that’s quite interesting too ‘cause she- Yeah, she said, “Don’t worry about what people think of [00:16:55] you.” Jodie Lemon: Yeah. God knows you and knows, and He’s got your back and so [00:17:00] that’s who you need to- Yeah … Worry about, not what other people think of you.
Yeah. And [00:17:05] she said, “Assume that they like you.” Mm-hmm. You remember that? Yeah.
She was like, [00:17:10] “Ma- just assume that they like you,” but it’s so easy for us to be like, “Ooh, well, [00:17:15] maybe they don’t like me.” Yeah. She said that on a couple of occasions. Yeah. That she felt like, [00:17:20] “Oh, I don’t think they like me.”
Yeah. And then they’d listen to her podcast and everything [00:17:25] and commented on- How good they liked it. Yeah. I thought that was- Well, yeah I think- Even like a lady [00:17:30] at an event- Mm-hmm … She thought didn’t like her, that she was speaking at or something.
Valinda Hankds: And then [00:17:35] she’s like, afterwards she come up and told me what a wonderful job they had done and- Yeah … [00:17:40] she’s like, “Wow, I didn’t even think you liked me.” Isn’t it interesting? So you like me. [00:17:45] Do you?
You’re, now you’re on my party list. [00:17:50] Nice. Now you’re invited. Yeah. So no, I think I [00:17:55] love that, and I think that, you know, when you think of other people and [00:18:00] how sometimes lonely peop- people feel lonely, isolated- Mm-hmm Michele Morley: [00:18:05] and, um, kind of stuck.
But if we take the initiative in [00:18:10] thinking of other people and inviting them or [00:18:15] reaching out to them or… I think that everyone wants to [00:18:20] know or feel like they matter. Oh, for sure. Right? Yeah.
And just a simple [00:18:25] smile- Mm … Is a lot. Yeah. You know, you might be in a grocery store or, [00:18:30] I know I was going into the gym one day on a tough day, and lady drove by, just [00:18:35] smiled at me, and I’m like, “I actually needed that- Mm Jodie Lemon: this morning.” Mm-hmm.
You know? Why? [00:18:40] It’s so simple. You know? It’s just a simple, you can change somebody’s [00:18:45] day- Yeah …
With a simple hello or, or actually asking if [00:18:50] they are really okay. Yeah. You know? For sure. That means I really care.
And I love [00:18:55] that. And I’m a hugger. Mm-hmm. I love to jump in. And if I see somebody, and [00:19:00] sometimes for me, that is just magic.
Michele Morley: Yeah. Give me a hug and I am [00:19:05] like, all the cares have gone away. Yes. But just [00:19:10] lo- just letting people know that they matter- Mm-hmm … And that we care, and that we really get, [00:19:15] you know, you can trust me.
Mm-hmm. Your name is safe with me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So [00:19:20] then you interviewed Heather Osmond.
Yeah. Isn’t she great? Jodie Lemon: And she’s, she’s so [00:19:25] great. Oh, she’s so good. And she owns- She owns Osmond Design.
Right. Best of State. [00:19:30] Right. And she does a lot of real estate. Mm-hmm.
A lot of commercial too, real estate. [00:19:35] Yeah. And so she’s, uh, she’s on fire. Yeah. She- She is on fire.
She really is. And she [00:19:40] even has her own clothing line. Yeah, that’s what she was saying, having- Yeah Valinda Hankds: in her- Yeah … In her [00:19:45] stores. Uh-huh.
Mm-hmm. We need to go check that out, girls. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that’d be [00:19:50] fun to go in there and look at her clothes and stuff. Yeah.
Yeah, she was [00:19:55] delightful. Oh, she- Her interview was very personable, like [00:20:00] relatable. Mm-hmm. Right. And you’re looking at that going, “Okay, she’s been through very [00:20:05] similar,” you know?
Right. Mm-hmm. Right in the beginning of the marriage and everything, you [00:20:10] don’t have anything. Anything. Yeah.
You’re working so hard to paint or- Yeah … [00:20:15] whatever you have to do to make it. So you have… And at one time she had 30, I think she said [00:20:20] 36 single family homes at one point. Then they went into [00:20:25] assisted livings and- Yeah Jodie Lemon: and then, you know, her and Jared ended up in divorce [00:20:30] and, and now she’s done all this, this other stuff on her own.
She’s had Osmond [00:20:35] Design for- A lot of years … Quite a while. Yeah. And then Best of State, she just bought Best of State. Mm-hmm.
[00:20:40] So that’s going to be fun to watch. Yeah. And then she does KSL. [00:20:45] She does a- Podcast … Podcast on KSL- Yeah …
For real estate. Mm-hmm. So what I loved about [00:20:50] her in the interview was, um, you know, she’s a family mo- you [00:20:55] know, a mom- Mm-hmm … And busy and has all the things. But what I [00:21:00] could see from her is she enjoyed the simple things.
And as a [00:21:05] result of, okay, things are tight, she became very resourceful. Valinda Hankds: Mm-hmm. [00:21:10] And that’s something that I think takes practice and awareness of… [00:21:15] You know, I’ve, I know a gal who, um- Her husband was [00:21:20] an, a lawyer, and she learned how to sew. And she ended [00:21:25] up making these beautiful dresses- Mm-hmm …
And, but then she ended up [00:21:30] learning other thing, like fashion. And now on Instagram, she [00:21:35] is just this beautiful woman with a fashion sense that, but she [00:21:40] created that for herself. Michele Morley: But she wouldn’t have, when she first got married, she wouldn’t have [00:21:45] looked at that and said, “Oh, this is what I’m gonna create.” And Heather did very much the s- [00:21:50] the same thing. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. She created something, like when she wanted the couch. [00:21:55] Oh, yeah. I mean, when- And it had a rip in it … She wanted.
Yeah. So she put a blanket on it. Jodie Lemon: Blanket on it, yeah. Yeah, and a [00:22:00] pillow. Yeah.
Sometimes you have to make do- Do, yeah. Mm-hmm … With what you [00:22:05] have. Yeah. And then how she said she’d go into the homes and they were - she could [00:22:10] see ways she could change it so they could sell better just by changing a few things here and [00:22:15] there.
Mm-hmm. And- And paint Valinda Hankds: how she got us started with the paint. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That was her breakthrough.
She said [00:22:20] if she had… You asked her if she had $1,000, what would she do? Yeah. She said paint. Yeah.
And buy [00:22:25] pillows and- Yeah, things that make it look so much nicer without [00:22:30] a big cost- Mm-hmm … Involved, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah, she’s done a lot [00:22:35] in her life. Jodie Lemon: I think that’s neat.
That’s fun. One of the things she, uh, [00:22:40] I would hear her say, “I’m obsessed with,” or, “I’m passionate [00:22:45] about this.” And another, um, conversation that I was having with a friend earlier, [00:22:50] she was, we were talking about not everybody has passion. [00:22:55] Oh. Not everybody has that, “Oh- Right …
I’m obsessed with doing this.” Michele Morley: It just, I [00:23:00] mean, like Heather said, it’s her baby. Mm-hmm. Not everybody has, has that [00:23:05] figured out. So I’m curious to understand or to see, [00:23:10] okay- What ignites that?
What helps women see, [00:23:15] “I love this. I’m gonna do something with this.” Whether it’s a craft or whether it’s, [00:23:20] you know, speaking to somebody, or whether it’s learning, um, [00:23:25] I don’t know, about health and nutrition. Mm-hmm. But being able to not only [00:23:30] help yourself, but to help other people.
Mm-hmm. Do you see what I’m saying? Yeah, exactly. [00:23:35] It’s a natural process. I think a lot of that’s a natural process.
Yeah. ‘Cause if you… [00:23:40] Like, when I got into real estate, I didn’t plan on going into real estate. Mm-hmm. It, it [00:23:45] just came along.
Jodie Lemon: I think it’s when you’re open to something, to learning something [00:23:50] new, and, and honestly going, “What works for me? Does sewing [00:23:55] work for me?” Yeah. “Does real estate work for me?” There’s so many different avenues that I have to…
[00:24:00] I think you, even through social media, you can look at things. You can take [00:24:05] different tests that tell you, “Oh, I’d be good at that,” or, “I’d be interested in that.” Mm-hmm. And then it’s [00:24:10] not such a hard lift if you naturally like something. Yeah.
She said you should [00:24:15] like it, and then it doesn’t feel like work. Yeah. Just like it’s not work to me. Yeah. It’s enjoyment.
It’s [00:24:20] fun. It’s my pleasure. Yeah. She said that. And if we could all find that, I think [00:24:25] we’d be happier.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that too, [00:24:30] with the- Baby steps. Mm-hmm. When you love what you do, it doesn’t become a job.
[00:24:35] Right. More of a hobby. Mm-hmm. That’s what I love. [00:24:40] I know, but you know, it’s fun when you start working in an alley that you like.
It’s [00:24:45] fun Yeah. Yeah. And if it brings in money- Woo. Woo. Valinda Hankds: That’s a bonus.
Especially [00:24:50] you never know. I wouldn’t have ever thought that I would’ve been on my own financially. Yeah. I [00:24:55] wouldn’t have ever thought that. Yeah.
And all of a sudden, the things that I kind of liked became a, “Oh, I’ve [00:25:00] gotta like ‘em a lot now” Mm-hmm … To provide for your own family. Yeah. So you were forced [00:25:05] into something that ended up- Mm-hmm Michele Morley: being a blessing for you and your family. Yeah.
[00:25:10] And your kids have been able to watch you, you know, grow and develop into something [00:25:15] that you love- Yeah … But provides. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Provides for your [00:25:20] family.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that’s why this network is so amazing- [00:25:25] Mm-hmm … Is because people can come here, and they can, they can start looking for that [00:25:30] kinda stuff. Jodie Lemon: And we’d love to help, too.
Right. You know, however it is, people can get, you know, s- [00:25:35] that support. Yeah. So they can find what they want to do, or they [00:25:40] find support to, you know, help different alleys. Mm-hmm.
They can find a different alley. [00:25:45] At the event, it was so interesting. Mm. After we had our event, and Curtis and [00:25:50] Heather were there, and they were fantastic. Michele Morley: But every person that I spoke to [00:25:55] after, like every single one of them said, “I needed [00:26:00] to hear this today.”
Yeah. And it stirred something in my heart when I know [00:26:05] what I need to do. There were several of them that said, “I know what I, I need to do now.” And [00:26:10] I’m like, “That’s, that’s what this is about.” That’s what we wanted.
Yeah. And it’s saying yes to those [00:26:15] opportunities without the limiting beliefs holding us back anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, and [00:26:20] Heather shared her vulnerability- Mm-hmm … Sharing her story, and she [00:26:25] didn’t, just like you, just like you, didn’t see herself being in this position.
[00:26:30] Yeah. And yet her faith stayed intact. Jodie Lemon: Mm-hmm. And she had [00:26:35] this belief in what she could continue to do. She wasn’t waiting for anybody to [00:26:40] come and save her.
And so often, I think we keep ourselves [00:26:45] from growing and- Because we’re afraid. Mm-hmm. What’s gonna be on the other… Can [00:26:50] I get there? Mm-hmm.
Or is this, or am I, am I gonna fail? And you know what? [00:26:55] Michele Morley: Sometimes we fail. Yeah. Sometimes it doesn’t turn out the way you hope it would.
[00:27:00] But the goal with Y. E. T. Women is to create that [00:27:05] community of, “Oh, I believe in you.” Yeah.
I believe in… No, you’ve got [00:27:10] what it takes, and we can help provide resources. We can help provide [00:27:15] friendship. Yeah. You know?
Mm-hmm. Whatever it is. Well, and I know, so we have [00:27:20] our core four pillars. Mm-hmm. And I know Heather and her, she said that she [00:27:25] had faith, family, and freedom- Freedom.
Yeah. Mm-hmm … Was her three core pillars. So [00:27:30] I think you can do that. You know, we take it as a group, those four pillars, but [00:27:35] what are our f- our pillars- Personal Jodie Lemon: personal.
Mm. Our personal pillars. [00:27:40] And I think that’s why you find yourself better, too. Yeah. Is to have, [00:27:45] have that in mind.
Yeah. Look inside yourself. And identify [00:27:50] what it is that matters to you. Mm-hmm. And to me, and as a result of with Y.
E. T. [00:27:55] Women, so it’s four pillars with, you know, faith, and relationship, and wellbeing, [00:28:00] and finance. Michele Morley: Those impact every single one of us- Mm-hmm … In one [00:28:05] way or another, right?
Right. And at different times, don’t you feel like you [00:28:10] glom onto one of those more- Yeah … Than others? Mm-hmm. For sure.
You know? Yeah. This morning [00:28:15] I found myself going, “Oh, relationships are super important to me.” Mm-hmm. You know?
[00:28:20] Faith is super important to me. Jodie Lemon: And they, they all are, but those [00:28:25] two- Yeah … Really hit me today. Yeah. If you’re able to create a balance in some [00:28:30] way, you know, whatever it means.
But I think you have to be able to pull [00:28:35] from each one of those daily. Daily. On what— Do you? Mm-hmm. On one, [00:28:40] in one way or another, and create that balance.
I don’t— And [00:28:45] we said, is it, is it possible to be really, truly have balance? [00:28:50] Michele Morley: I don’t know. I d- I mean, even when I feel like, “Oh, this is [00:28:55] good. Life is good. I feel like I’ve got everything kind of in place.”
Mm-hmm. [00:29:00] And, um, but every, you know, evidently something always [00:29:05] comes up. I know. You’re like- I know, but every once in a while when you have those feelings, you’re like, “Oh, that’s a [00:29:10] W for me.” Yeah.
I mean- I have a win. Yeah. Oh, I love that [00:29:15] feeling. Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s a good point.
Yeah. For me, I don’t know if this is [00:29:20] for you. When things are so good, you’re like, “Ooh, what’s coming next?” What comes next? You [00:29:25] just know what’s coming.
And I’m not manifesting it. I don’t want anything hard. Yeah. [00:29:30] But so grateful for what Yes Womxn is about, and the [00:29:35] people that we have brought in. Mm.
So inspiring, so motivating as [00:29:40] far as, you know, that belief in there is good in the world. [00:29:45] It is. There’s beauty if we’re looking for it. Mm-hmm. And there are meaningful [00:29:50] relationships that are out there waiting for the making.
Jodie Lemon: Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. [00:29:55] Um, and that’s what I’ve loved about what, what we’re about. Yeah.
[00:30:00] I’ve loved that too, and the event was beautiful. It was great. It was so pretty. Yeah. And [00:30:05] so neat to have all those women there.
I love that feeling. Yeah. [00:30:10] Yep. Yeah. So we’re here to build those relationships and help [00:30:15] other women to be inspired, empowered, and uplifted.
Michele Morley: [00:30:20] And thank you for being with us on our podcast today. We are so excited [00:30:25] about the things to come. We’re grateful for the people, for Curtis and Brandy and [00:30:30] Heather, for what they brought to the table. And hopefully you can go back and look at the [00:30:35] podcasts and listen to those again and get little golden nuggets like we’ve shared today. [00:30:40] So thank you for being with us.
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